BLOCKBUSTER trade between 4pointplay & 81pointman

[81pointman]

this trade has been brewing since before last seasons trade deadline and we nearly made a blockbuster then, but he held off and the trade just got bigger and bigger, but here it is... i will finally be out of the cellar.

81 point man gets:
yao
moon
m. williams
lowry
3.20
4.2
4.20

4 point play gets:
Nene
Hawes
Yi
1.1
1.14
1.18

waiting on 4 point to confirm...

[gzus81]

Pretty big trade. I guess now we know where Beasley and Rose are going.

[4PointPlay]

I confirm and I may not keep both of them, I still need to make some moves.

[cooljesture20]

4 Point Play got raped, absolutely raped! This is veto worthy even.

[4PointPlay]

Aug 16, 2008 20:31:01 GMT -5 @cooljesture20 said:

4 Point Play got raped, absolutely raped! This is veto worthy even.

I have been offering Jamison and Yao around, Williams and Lowry are basically throw ins for me because even after this trade i'm at 9 keepers. We will see what the league thinks, but I am ending up drafting 6 out of the first 41 players including #1 and 2. If you translate all those picks into players that they could turn out to be, there is a HUGE difference in what I will be able to draft as opposed to what I gave away.

[tian820]

I know I'm new... but I wouldn't say yes to this trade. Sure 4PP gets the #1 pick + 2 others that are surely valuable and I understand the too many keepers problem (hardly a problem IMHO ;D), but this isn't close to being fair

[cooljesture20]

It doesn't matter what you can or cannot keep or what you're going to draft or any of that. All that matters is this deal, and you're just getting absolutely thrashed in it. Yao and Jamison alone are enough to get what you got in return.

I'm not sure how we're going to handle the league, but I think now's a good time to decide whether there will be vetoes or not. I'm definitely throwing out the first veto on this trade, it's just absurd.

[gzus81]

I looked at the trade for awhile trying to break everything down. Its tough. With the number #1 pick, 4pp is guaranteed Beasley, who imo should be better than Jamison/Williams. Maybe not this year, but sooner rather than later. The big thing here is the inclusion of Yao. With Camby gone, Nene now has a new role and granted hes healthy, should see plenty of minutes. Same thing with Yi, but idk if they can make up for the loss of Yao. I guess im on the fence, i can go either way here, but ill go with the overall consensus.

[4PointPlay]

I'm talking with 81 Point Man and we are going to modify it a little, if it was Moon instead of Jamison would it look more even to you?

[81pointman]

since it seems the trade is a little lopsided in my favor, we have talked and agreed to swap out jamison for moon, this should even things up fairly well.

also, i just want to point out that nene is almost guarnateed a starting spot now and hawes averaged 11/6/2/1 in 30mpg at the end of the year last year and is only 19 years old. yi has got huge talent and new jersey gave up jefferson for him so they are obviously going to let him play.

[cooljesture20]

Nene is guaranteed nothing. Kenyon martin played well last season. Nene has yet to prove he's healthy, in shape, or even any good (all problems he's had over the years).

Hawes is still a raw project. brad Miller hasn't gone anywhere so that leaves Hawes a big question mar.

NJ didn't give up Jefferson for Yi, they gave up Jefferson for cap space to go after the 2010 free agents. Yi has talent, but foreigners fail more often than they succeed in the NBA. Unlike yao, Yi's game isn't something that the NBA hasn't seen yet or often.

As for being able to get Beasley or Rose or whoever in the draft, those are also huge question marks. While they sound like sure things, there are Kwame Brown's and Darko Milicic's in every draft.

Basically, we're talking sure things like Mo Williams and Yao Ming for 100% pure, raw, unproven talents. It's better with Moon, but still pretty questionable.

[4PointPlay]

That isn't Mo Williams, that is Marcus Williams, the 3rd year PG that got traded to GSW from NJN. That should swing it even more in my direction. All in all, I didn't make out that bad... sure Yao is an unmatched talent at the center position, but he has also missed an average of more than 1/3rd of each of the last 3 seasons, I had a handshake deal to move Nene before I traded for him so I really wasn't the one taking the chance on his health(although I think the team has shown confidence in him coming back strong by trading Camby for nothing).

The Artest for NOTHING deal pretty much confirms that the Kings are moving in a different direction and I wouldn't be surprised to see Hawes have an 12/7/3ast/1.5blk season in the high 20s for minutes which would make me happy that I got him. He is a good scorer, average rebounder, good passer and decent defender, he is the future of the center position in Sac town.

As far as Yi goes... how can anyone consider a 20 year old international rookie who goes for 8/5/1/1 a prospect for failure. He isn't a Darko/Kwame/Tskitishvili(or whatever) that worked out great and couldn't play worth crap. He has played international tournaments and had a well above average rookie season. As far as rookie seasons go, he was better than those other 3 were(maybe ever), he was better than Nowitzki as a rookie, i'm not saying he will be as good as him, but he is more than just another international bust. We will have to wait and see, but I can't see Yi being anything less than a solid player.

As far as Beastly/Rose go, I agree, there is some risk there, but I for one think Beasly is as sure thing as Durant and Oden were. After him it's a little more hazy, but there is a lot of talent in this years draft and picking 4 times in the top 20(6 times in the first 41 picks) with 8 solid keepers makes me pretty happy.

[cooljesture20]

Okay, knowing it's Marcus and not Mo changes things. I'm cool with it as Marcus/Moon then.

Camby was traded because of financial reason, and nothing else. if this had been the last season of Nene or Martin's contracts, they would have been dealt instead. They should have dealt Martin or Nene in the first place, but nobody was stupid enough to touch those idiotic contracts.

Artest for nothing means nothing, because they didn't trade anyone that effects Hawes position. And even if they had, we're still talking about a raw prospect that has looked both solid and horrible.

Yi is a matter of opinion. I don't think Yi has what it takes mentally to succeed in the NBA. he thinks he's too good and I don't think he's half as good as the hype. The American game is just too fast and too quick for him to be as good as advertised.

What you're underrating in this trade is the only sure thing, Yao Ming. When he's healthy he's probably a top 5 player in fantasy. And he's a sure thing, no risk involved other than injury, which every player has. He's also said this is the last time he'll be doing anything with international basketball, so we can expect a rested Yao Ming every season from here on out.

Anyways, it being Marcus Williams I have no beef with this deal. In fact I almost flip flop and think it makes 81 Point Man the loser.

[tian820]

Seeing Yao, Jamison and M. Williams initially did do it for me. That was why I thought there was no way this was an even trade. I still think Yao is a lot to give up. He's a beast, although still not even completely healthy even though he's playing. I don't think there's a single "sure thing" in this trade, but it is much more even with the subtraction of Jamison and addition of Moon. I have no problems with it now, for what it's worth

[cooljesture20]

For future reference, when naming players in trades, let's try not to do M. Williams when that can be multiple players.